Life is coming.

[hannah]

My next short-term fic project - 5000 to 20000 words, you know, short-term - will focus on a post-menopausal woman late in her life. To those reading this space who've gone through that process, is there anything of note I should be aware of or make sure to include? It's not a subject where I can extrapolate from personal experience, and most of the stuff I've yet found is fairly sanitized and clinical. Informative, yes, and also clinical. It's not quite what I'm after in terms of getting a hold on emotional thrust.

I'd like to take a stab at long-term love and the work required for that to work in the day-to-day. Knowing what at least one of the main characters has gone through, having lived all those days, would be a big help.

And now that I've asked the internet: time to see what the library's got.

Comments

[isis]

*raises hand*

I mean, depending on what you mean by "late in her life". But I'm three years into menopause, if you want to ask me questions either here or by email.

[hannah]

I imagine her being in her mid to late 80s, possibly her early 90s. If I think of anything specific, I'll ask you - thank you for the offer.

[mecurtin]

Both of my parents are still alive in their early 90s, so I may have useful input.

When/where is it set?

When my mother got to be in her early 80s she started using profanity (shit, fuck) which she NEVER did before. I was very worried, because that can be a sign of dementia or other brain problems. I paid extremely close attention for a month or so and concluded that she was in full possession of all marbles, but her lifetime supply of give-a-darn was used up--which she confirmed.

This is one reason elderly relatives can be so very embarrassing.

[hannah]

It's set somewhere in Northern California about 50 years from now. The main character's used to self-monitoring and checking for signs of things going wrong with her, both in small and large ways.

[isis]

My parents are in their mid-80s, and I spent quite a bit of time with them last year. I don't see what mecurtin did. We actually had a very frank talk about intimacy because they were interviewed by someone studying long-lasting marriages and they passed on the survey/results. For example, they are no longer physically able to have sex (which they are not pleased about) but they cuddle A LOT. They also had bad health issues last year, and when they were separated (e.g. having to be in the hospital, or in rehab) they did poorly - being back together literally helped them heal. They both sleep a lot more (naps etc) than they used to, and also have difficulty sleeping through the night. They both are acutely aware of their memories and cognitive abilities sliding (they were both scientists). They have both recently had health issues where they needed wheelchairs for extended periods of time (months) but now my father only uses a cane and my mother uses a cane or a walker depending on how far she needs to go.

[hannah]

I've been thinking about the main character's attitude towards her current lack of sexual activity and the other ways she's found to be intimate with her partner. She knows she wouldn't be doing as well as she is without his help and presence.

[mecurtin]

I'm about 10 years past menopause, and went through it more or less at the same time as two friends I saw a lot.

Do you have questions about perimenopausal life, or post-?

During perimenopause I had the heaviest periods I ever had in my *life*, because it's about hormone *ratios*, not levels. We all ran extra-hot, and still do compared to the guys.

Even post-menopause I've had some premenstrual feelings and even, I think, bleeding once or twice when a daughter was visiting and having her period (we had usually synced when they were living at home).

My mother & I talked about how post-menopause a new kind of anxiety dream appeared: "I'm having my period and I don't have any supplies with me!" Has the person had children? There's also the anxiety dream where I'm traveling with a baby and have no diapers.

I still occasionally get zits and I *deeply* resent it.

Let me know if you want more.

[hannah]

Post. Very post. It'll have been at least two decades since her last period. No children of her own, either. While she wanted them for a while, she's since moved past that and come to a graceful acceptance of where her life is at the time of the fic.

[nightdog_barks]

I'm 61, so I'm not sure if that's late enough in life for your fic. :-)

I would say that the one thing that really surprised me, in addition to the "usual" insomnia and mood swings/emotions close to the surface and hot flashes, was that the hot flashes progressed to pretty much announcing themselves with surges of anxiety and ... there's no better word for it ... doom. Seriously. If you google "hot flashes feeling of dread," it's all there. Nobody'd ever told me about THAT one.

Let me know if you want anything more. ♥

[hannah]

Not quite, no, but this is still tremendously helpful - nobody wrote about the feelings of dread, either, which is a detail I would love to make use of. I found them because you told me to look for them.

I'll take anything you want to share, and with gusto.

[topaz_eyes]

I'm 5 years post-menopause. I finished at 44, on the early side of the curve. Early menopause runs on my mother's side; I knew it was likely coming for me too, which influenced certain life decisions.

I often think of it as "Freedom 45". The biggest feeling I think, when it was finally over, was relief. My perimenopause lasted about 5 years and I was ready to be done. I don't know if this is what you were looking for, but I hope it's helpful.

[hannah]

It's a useful data point in the preliminary drafting phase.

[topaz_eyes]

I meant to add, "Freedom 45" is a riff on old "Freedom 55" retirement commercials that an insurance company aired about 10 years ago in Canada. I realized I probably should have explained that reference.

[hannah]

Not something I'd have guessed myself, though I understood the general sentiment.

[linaelyn]

I think you might have a bunch of us who are in the late 50s early 60s for info, but... 80 is another thing entirely. I'm watching a few of my older friends deal with the issues of 78~85, and their experience is a good deal outside my own. Not being able to trust your brain to lift your left foot over that curb, even though the right foot managed it just fine, a microsecond ago. My aunt described it as "unlearning how to walk" and it's... one's brain starts to forget things that one takes totally for granted, until they can't be anymore.

Not sure if that's at all helpful, but your post made me think, certainly.

[hannah]

Reminding me to think of how the main character's starting to recognize what she used to take for granted - something I can extrapolate from a knee injury - is tremendously helpful. Asking myself, how does she see the world now that she's changed so much along with it?

[lilacsigil]

When is it set? My grandmother (born 1916) was old in her 60s and died in her mid-70s and this was pretty normal. My parents (born 1946) are now a similar age but in a much earlier "life stage", looking after grandchildren, travelling, and are basically fit and healthy. Someone in their 80s now could be anywhere from still working part-time, volunteering and travelling, or they could be quite frail, depending on their life and health. Someone in their 80s thirty years ago would have been very elderly and outlived most or all of their friends.

[linaelyn]

I concur with all of this! The aspect of when-in-history your fix is set could make a huge difference in the person's health, not only their own but in their peers which could effect their emotional health.

[hannah]

It's in the near future. So there's going to be online shopping and chat rooms, but self-driving cars will still be 10 years away from the general consumer public.

[lilacsigil]

I work in healthcare, so I know a lot of people in this age bracket! The ones who are basically healthy are quite active and social, and have a lot of organisations (charity, church, exercise, card games) but they tend to stick close to home because they don't want to drive in unfamiliar environments and travelling is tiring and difficult. There are a lot more women than men. They take a lot of responsibility for their more frail friends, visiting them frequently, picking up medications, taking them places if they can't or won't drive, etc. Some of them still have jobs, though very much part-time - the plumber who helped renovate our house was 83 at the time. He retired and then died a few months later, which is a very common pattern.

They tend to all get up very early and go to bed early as well - that may be because they're almost all retired farmers in my area, but my grandparents were not farmers and they followed the same pattern. By this age they don't tend to be caring for young grandchildren or great-grandchildren by themselves, as it's too difficult physically, but they attend (and fundraise for) a lot of events for their family members; the ones without grandkids tend to accompany their friends or siblings to the kids' events.

[hannah]

I'd known I'd wanted to have the character still involved in long-term projects with an affiliated organization, and while she's not near people, she's stayed in touch with a lot of them. So I'm pleased to know I got that at least somewhat accurate for the sort of thing I'm trying to portray.

[hannah]

It's set in Northern California, Marin/Sonoma, about 50 years from now. She's outlived a number of her old friends, and she's doing what's basically volunteer and consultation work. She gardens a lot.

[katbear]

Some of how your character responds to things will depend on some of her life experiences as well as her physical, emotional and financial state. My mother is now 84 and I've been there for a lot of her life changes the last 15 years (we live on two different coasts, but I go out twice a year for three weeks at a time and we talk on the phone), but I don't know how typical some of her reactions/actions are. If any of this info is helpful, great, if not, please ignore.

Some examples.
My father died at the end of 2011, and I went out for several months off an on to help with the transition. She was making the change to living alone, suffering through grief, and having to make a huge transition from being the 'day to day' person financially (they both had worked prior to retirement, but he was the one handling all the big financial decisions). Suddenly, she had to be aware of how much money is coming in and what she's doing with it (actually, I have access to view her checking account and I do a monthly review for her, but it sounds like your character would not have a child to do that, although she might have a trusted friend/advisor to talk about money things with). Fortunately, house and cars were paid off, she has a good pension of her own and other income, but even today she still worries about what would happen if she lost her money or making big financial decisions like buying a new car or replacing carpet with other flooring. Not sure if some of that comes from having been born in 1934 and growing up without much money. If your character is still married, how they handle money, how much they have and what they do with it might be something they talk about/worry about/argue about.

Social relationships - she got tired of volunteering at the local senior center, but she still has friends in the area where she has lived for over forty years, although she's had to deal with some of them dying. She prefers to talk on the phone (and stay up on the gossip), which she does pretty much every day with at least a few of them as well as a few friends that live in other parts of the country. The last few years I finally persuaded her to get a smartphone, and she will use it, mostly for phone calls. She has been doing email for several years, and likes to print out pictures that people sometimes send. She doesn't go out socially much, and spends much of her time in the evenings watching TV. She has a nice little yard and likes to putter around in it occasionally. She used to play cards occasionally with some of her friends, but doesn't do much of that anymore (I believe some of that is due to several friends not being very good players and she was getting frustrated with them, but she still wanted to keep them as friends to talk to).

Routines - she still has a few routines she keeps doing because she and my father had been doing it that way forever. Example, she gets up in the morning, lingers over the first cup of coffee reading the newspaper, then has her second cup of coffee with a light breakfast (protein shake, toast, cereal, that sort of thing) so she'll have food to take with her meds. Never more than two cups, and never less than two unless we're going somewhere for breakfast.

Physical - she has had both hips replaced, one of them still hurts, and she is dealing with COPD, high blood pressure etc. She has sometimes made statements about not wanting to live so long when things hurt. She has gotten very careful about eating right and keeping her weight down, yet paradoxically wants to cook more food than we should eat and have desserts when I visit. She still can drive safely, although passing the next driver's license renewal worries her. She did decide she was willing to pay someone to do the yard work like weekly mowing, trimming etc. She still travels a few times a year, mostly to Reno for gambling (that's a lifelong entertainment thing) and to see some old friends, but that happens less and less each year.

Pets - my parents always had large-ish dogs of some sort. After they retired, they had a couple of pug dogs, which she dearly loved. The last one died several years, and she keeps saying she's thinking about getting another small dog but has dithered about and not made a decision. Part of that seems to be her concern about what would happen if she got a younger dog and she died before it did. She gets an occasional dog fix by taking care of the neighbor's dog in her house when they're away.

A general comment. My parents were married for 58 years. For a very long part of that, they both worked. There were certainly issues and arguments, and my father could be difficult to get along with sometimes, but he worked very hard to make sure my mom was taken care of financially. It wasn't until they both retired and spent much more time together that my mom had to think more about their relationship. There was a point when she confided in me that she had been thinking about a divorce, but she never took it anywhere and I'm sure she never talked to my father about it. Communication, especially about emotional things, was never a 'thing' in our family and I'm pretty sure that was something that didn't happen in either of their families growing up. I always had the impression that they had both settled into their routines, there were some things they still enjoyed and she just ignored some of the things that she didn't like. It got more difficult when my father's health began to deteriorate, but my mother saw herself as the the caretaker - that was her responsibility, her duty, and she would keep doing whatever that required.

[hannah]

It's helpful, yes. Thinking about how she's settled into this new phase of her life and how she thinks back on what's happened and changed to get her there is good, because it's stuff I need to know because she knows it. Thank you for all the details.